Interview with Zierle & Carter
Zierle & Carter, Absent Engagement. Photo by Steve Tanner for Zierle & Carter
02/09/2016, Amargeti, Cyprus
Q: Why / when / how did you start to work with performance, what is your background, how did you arrive at doing performance?
We both studied visual art at Falmouth University in the UK and specialised in sculpture. I, Alexandra, had also trained as a commercial photographer, which taught me how to sculpt with light and frame images. So, moving from material led sculptural enquiries to process and site responsive performances for camera was a natural transition- feeling very much on familiar ground with working in front of the camera as much as behind it. All of these investigations were driven by learning from self initiated experiences and projects, rather then being guided by course work or tutors. Our first public appearance for live audiences was also our first collaborative project. I had created a back to back suit, which needed Paul as a collaborator in order to activate and fully inhabit the suit. As part of an arts festival, we invited audiences to play ball games with us at the local bowling green, encounter us in shopping mode at the local supermarket, and converse with us at a private viewing. Shortly after graduation, we were awarded a travel scholarship which took us to Patagonia, Argentina into a Welsh speaking community, where we researched the sense of belonging and created site specific performances nomadically throughout our 3 month travels. From then on we have extensively explored live performance for audiences in various formats, spanning one to one performances, communal actions, sculptural installation works, and durational works in very different locations and socio-political contexts.
Q: What is your process like when you make a performance, from idea to actual work?
The development of an idea from conception to realisation can take various journeys, however our process always starts with a question or better a catalogue of questions, enquiries that are based around a theme or a site. Mostly we investigate what makes us human, this leads us to having conversations with people exploring inner and outer landscapes around subjects such as the sense of belonging, relationship to nature, death, love, etc.
I, Alexandra, am the creative head in our collaboration and at times the conception of a new performance starts with a strong vision or an urgency to follow a trial of explorations. In this sense what needs to be done is quite clear from the beginning. However, our process can also be much slower, especially if extensive research is involved, such as with our Australian interview series in 2012, which provided us with a lot of material to work from. The collected material then goes through what we refer to as a ‘percolation’ process and we arrive at certain images and actions through a less spontaneous but more reflective thought and feeling process. In both instances, we give room for the idea and concept of a work to breath, to incubate, organically shift and accumulate over time, adding to it, allowing it to come into being, placing trust into our intuitive senses. We find this a constructive and nurturing way of working rather than interrogating and analysing the ‘whys’, the ‘hows’, and the ‘whats’ of emerging ideas immediately through the intellect. Our investigation also includes material led, sensory body-centred data collection processes, site/context enquires, and secondary research. The body with its inner and outer senses then becomes the tool for collating data.
Q: What are your intentions to express with your performances?
Well, in some respects it is the same as in life; we intend to have heartfelt, sincere, poignant, challenging, memorable and transformative experiences with people. One of our main intentions is to communicate beyond what could be expressed through purely visual, spoken or written language. We are interested in people having embodied (in and from the body) ‘in the moment’ experiences and responses, absorbing and connecting with the work on multiple levels, rather than analysing it purely through intellect or mediating it through socially conditioned filters. We invite people to get out of their rational minds, the familiar self defined constructs, and take a leap into the unknown.
In our work we use everyday objects, actions and materials familiar to the context, that on first glance, through the way it is deployed, feels in context, like it ‘fits’ and blends in, but on further inspection feels totally other. It is this encounter with the ‘other’, the unknown that interests us, the friction between the anticipated and the unfamiliar through which we intend to shift the context, redefine the rules and framework. This way we hope people are unable to immediately categorise, label or give parameters to their experience, instead just experience it from within. Through flipping everyday and universal actions/roles upside down, turning them inside out, reversing, or reverting them, we intend to initiate a new dialogue, a poetic around the potentiality of space, momentarily redefining what is possible. Planting seeds, presenting alternatives, whether the invitation is accepted or not. We intend to create a scenario that feels so other, yet ultimately grounded in the everyday and the ‘familiar’, that you are required to address and question your core beliefs in order to navigate that moment.
We are less interested in communicating our beliefs and manifestos, big ideas and grand statements, instead we are trying to plant an invitation for people to confront, reassess, question, reflect, meditate, and take action upon issues that they hold close to them. A potential catalyst for change as it were. We are not interested in providing answers, people bring their own histories and filters to their reading, instead we intend to immerse ourselves completely within these new scenarios in order to unearth and surface with poignant questions.
Q: In your 'definitions' of performance art online, you point to performance art being a moment. How do you understand this moment? How does this moment of the performance relate to any other moment in life? Is there at all a difference? What makes this 'performance moment' extraordinary? Should it not be our goal that each moment in our lives is extraordinary?
Yes, indeed it could be our goal to live our lives in a continual state of profundity, of heightened awareness, and we believe that this is possible. What makes any moment special is the degree of undivided attention that is given to it, and by sharing this moment intentionally with others this focus or energy is multiplied, whether this is a moment in ‘ordinary’ life or during a performance. With this in mind, we don’t really see a major difference between a moment in life and a moment in performance, simply the framework is different and the context is shifted. With performance there is often an expectation that something ‘special’ will happen because as a social and cultural phenomenon its purpose is intrinsically linked to heightened life experiences, ‘memorable moments’, dramatised reality, and an engineering and packaging of an experience to consume. There are parameters. This is where we are more interested in digging deeper, in blurring the unnecessary boundaries between the performed and the lived moment. Where a structure, a frame, a focus (which could be called performance) is applied to everyday experience, that operates to bring everybody, including the ‘performers’ into a state of heightened awareness, into a collectively shared and co-determined unknown moment, a departure from the parameters imposed by an art form or by societal conditioning, just a space of pure potential. Whether life or performance does this for us it does not matter. If we could now imagine that we would all be in this state of absolute presence at all times, to be ‘in the moment’ as it were then performances as a structure for creating extraordinary moments might become obsolete.
Q: Why / when / how did you start to work with performance, what is your background, how did you arrive at doing performance?
We both studied visual art at Falmouth University in the UK and specialised in sculpture. I, Alexandra, had also trained as a commercial photographer, which taught me how to sculpt with light and frame images. So, moving from material led sculptural enquiries to process and site responsive performances for camera was a natural transition- feeling very much on familiar ground with working in front of the camera as much as behind it. All of these investigations were driven by learning from self initiated experiences and projects, rather then being guided by course work or tutors. Our first public appearance for live audiences was also our first collaborative project. I had created a back to back suit, which needed Paul as a collaborator in order to activate and fully inhabit the suit. As part of an arts festival, we invited audiences to play ball games with us at the local bowling green, encounter us in shopping mode at the local supermarket, and converse with us at a private viewing. Shortly after graduation, we were awarded a travel scholarship which took us to Patagonia, Argentina into a Welsh speaking community, where we researched the sense of belonging and created site specific performances nomadically throughout our 3 month travels. From then on we have extensively explored live performance for audiences in various formats, spanning one to one performances, communal actions, sculptural installation works, and durational works in very different locations and socio-political contexts.
Q: What is your process like when you make a performance, from idea to actual work?
The development of an idea from conception to realisation can take various journeys, however our process always starts with a question or better a catalogue of questions, enquiries that are based around a theme or a site. Mostly we investigate what makes us human, this leads us to having conversations with people exploring inner and outer landscapes around subjects such as the sense of belonging, relationship to nature, death, love, etc.
I, Alexandra, am the creative head in our collaboration and at times the conception of a new performance starts with a strong vision or an urgency to follow a trial of explorations. In this sense what needs to be done is quite clear from the beginning. However, our process can also be much slower, especially if extensive research is involved, such as with our Australian interview series in 2012, which provided us with a lot of material to work from. The collected material then goes through what we refer to as a ‘percolation’ process and we arrive at certain images and actions through a less spontaneous but more reflective thought and feeling process. In both instances, we give room for the idea and concept of a work to breath, to incubate, organically shift and accumulate over time, adding to it, allowing it to come into being, placing trust into our intuitive senses. We find this a constructive and nurturing way of working rather than interrogating and analysing the ‘whys’, the ‘hows’, and the ‘whats’ of emerging ideas immediately through the intellect. Our investigation also includes material led, sensory body-centred data collection processes, site/context enquires, and secondary research. The body with its inner and outer senses then becomes the tool for collating data.
Q: What are your intentions to express with your performances?
Well, in some respects it is the same as in life; we intend to have heartfelt, sincere, poignant, challenging, memorable and transformative experiences with people. One of our main intentions is to communicate beyond what could be expressed through purely visual, spoken or written language. We are interested in people having embodied (in and from the body) ‘in the moment’ experiences and responses, absorbing and connecting with the work on multiple levels, rather than analysing it purely through intellect or mediating it through socially conditioned filters. We invite people to get out of their rational minds, the familiar self defined constructs, and take a leap into the unknown.
In our work we use everyday objects, actions and materials familiar to the context, that on first glance, through the way it is deployed, feels in context, like it ‘fits’ and blends in, but on further inspection feels totally other. It is this encounter with the ‘other’, the unknown that interests us, the friction between the anticipated and the unfamiliar through which we intend to shift the context, redefine the rules and framework. This way we hope people are unable to immediately categorise, label or give parameters to their experience, instead just experience it from within. Through flipping everyday and universal actions/roles upside down, turning them inside out, reversing, or reverting them, we intend to initiate a new dialogue, a poetic around the potentiality of space, momentarily redefining what is possible. Planting seeds, presenting alternatives, whether the invitation is accepted or not. We intend to create a scenario that feels so other, yet ultimately grounded in the everyday and the ‘familiar’, that you are required to address and question your core beliefs in order to navigate that moment.
We are less interested in communicating our beliefs and manifestos, big ideas and grand statements, instead we are trying to plant an invitation for people to confront, reassess, question, reflect, meditate, and take action upon issues that they hold close to them. A potential catalyst for change as it were. We are not interested in providing answers, people bring their own histories and filters to their reading, instead we intend to immerse ourselves completely within these new scenarios in order to unearth and surface with poignant questions.
Q: In your 'definitions' of performance art online, you point to performance art being a moment. How do you understand this moment? How does this moment of the performance relate to any other moment in life? Is there at all a difference? What makes this 'performance moment' extraordinary? Should it not be our goal that each moment in our lives is extraordinary?
Yes, indeed it could be our goal to live our lives in a continual state of profundity, of heightened awareness, and we believe that this is possible. What makes any moment special is the degree of undivided attention that is given to it, and by sharing this moment intentionally with others this focus or energy is multiplied, whether this is a moment in ‘ordinary’ life or during a performance. With this in mind, we don’t really see a major difference between a moment in life and a moment in performance, simply the framework is different and the context is shifted. With performance there is often an expectation that something ‘special’ will happen because as a social and cultural phenomenon its purpose is intrinsically linked to heightened life experiences, ‘memorable moments’, dramatised reality, and an engineering and packaging of an experience to consume. There are parameters. This is where we are more interested in digging deeper, in blurring the unnecessary boundaries between the performed and the lived moment. Where a structure, a frame, a focus (which could be called performance) is applied to everyday experience, that operates to bring everybody, including the ‘performers’ into a state of heightened awareness, into a collectively shared and co-determined unknown moment, a departure from the parameters imposed by an art form or by societal conditioning, just a space of pure potential. Whether life or performance does this for us it does not matter. If we could now imagine that we would all be in this state of absolute presence at all times, to be ‘in the moment’ as it were then performances as a structure for creating extraordinary moments might become obsolete.
Zierle & Carter, Under Cover. Photo by Dayna Ganger for Zierle & Carter
Q: Is there any kind of spiritual dimension within your performance and if so what is this spiritual dimension? Is there a specific ritual that you do before or during each performance?
Yes, the spiritual dimension is embedded within the work, and fundamentally deals with exploring the interconnectedness of all things. ‘Harmony through conflict’ is also a recurrent theme that possesses a spiritual dimension for us. We investigate this through looking at contrast and challenges, which we try to resolve through actions of transformation, which leads to alchemical processes and the transmutation of limiting qualities into higher aspirations and a state of union, compassion and calm for all there is. Our on-going themes of love and belonging are universal and carry within them a quest for connecting with the spiritual dimension of our being-ness, what we have referred to previously as our true selves. All of these explorations are intricately connected to experiencing the present moment, the ‘now’ as we have referred to it, as fully as possible. In regards to rituals or preparations pre or during performance, we both simply remember to connect with and bring conscious focus to our breath, encoding each inhale and exhale, subsequently our body, and our being with our intent for the performance.
Q: Do you see the objects that you use as extensions of your body action, are they a part of the setting or do they carry any symbolic meaning? How do you choose your materials?
Most objects we use carry specific symbolic meaning and therefore are integral to the performance and the actions taking place. The symbolism explored can change from performance to performance as our understanding and relationship develops with each specific materials/objects. The more we embody certain actions the more the specific materials used become extensions of our bodies, yet the meaning might deepen, be imbued, traversing far beyond as merely an extension of the body, but rather become ‘spirited’ and ‘alive’, becoming its own entity.
We carefully select these materials as aesthetically they act to bracket, hold and hone a tone of the work and construction of a reality, it is the first layer often encountered. The aesthetics are the ‘face’, the surface of the work as such, behind which the meaning and the experience unfolds. It is therefore important that these materials in relation to each other emanate the right essence/tone.
We often use materials that are in some way poignant and related to the specific context and environment, though in instances where the context is less distinct, arguably the white walls of a exhibition space, we allow the concepts, thematic research and material explorations to take a lead, working more intuitively with metaphors, poetics and issues we hold close to our hearts, bringing together materials, surfaces and associations that would not normally be placed in relation to each other to allow new meanings to unfold.
Burnt toast for example is a material that is still quite new to us: Our relationship with burnt toast as a material was first initiated in Australia when we conducted interviews with a myriad of people around their personal definition of sense of belonging as well as what they perceived, if at all, to the opposite of belonging and the stories associated with them. Toast emerged out of these conversations with people both in relation to invoking a sense of belonging through its smell and taste, and the daily ritual of preparing it, and interestingly also in relation to an opposite sense of belonging. As when it is overdone and burnt it becomes abrasive, brittle and harsh to touch, and its smell for some becomes a reminder of burnt matter, specifically a reference to house fires and even more so the association to bush fires in Australia that causes repeatedly displacement of communities.
Q: To what extent are you aware of the audience when you are doing a performance?
The audience, whether there is direct contact or not, is always a large and unforgettable component in the overall performative experience. Even if we don’t exchange eye contact with anyone directly for example, just the audience’s presence, their willing giving of attention, consideration, energy and focus affects how we as performers experience the work and to a certain degree how and what actions will take place, they contribute energetically to the ‘fabric of the moment’ as described earlier. So our awareness always includes the audience as they are intrinsically woven into the fabric and potential materials of any performance.
Q: Do you experience each other differently when being in a performance?
During performances our awareness shifts and all senses are heightened, we slip back into our natural sense of being, even if the actions might be quite extreme. We give ourselves to the process and the task at hand. This act of surrendering and giving full attention to navigating live, the mental and conceptual framework that we have constructed out of research as much as from intuition, allows us to meet each other on a ‘deeper’ more profound level, in a stripped back, bare, and fragile yet present state. This is the process of coming into being that we mentioned earlier. The context and the filters have shifted, the projections of each other are softened, and though we are navigating this new scenario together for the first time, this present, ‘authentic’ moment allows us to see each other with new eyes. This act of getting lost within a scenario, an action or a process and finding each other through it is something we value beyond artistic measure, a space is opened that when we both give ourselves to it seems to pulse with energy and potential, recognising each other for who we are and not who we want the other to be for us.
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Yes, the spiritual dimension is embedded within the work, and fundamentally deals with exploring the interconnectedness of all things. ‘Harmony through conflict’ is also a recurrent theme that possesses a spiritual dimension for us. We investigate this through looking at contrast and challenges, which we try to resolve through actions of transformation, which leads to alchemical processes and the transmutation of limiting qualities into higher aspirations and a state of union, compassion and calm for all there is. Our on-going themes of love and belonging are universal and carry within them a quest for connecting with the spiritual dimension of our being-ness, what we have referred to previously as our true selves. All of these explorations are intricately connected to experiencing the present moment, the ‘now’ as we have referred to it, as fully as possible. In regards to rituals or preparations pre or during performance, we both simply remember to connect with and bring conscious focus to our breath, encoding each inhale and exhale, subsequently our body, and our being with our intent for the performance.
Q: Do you see the objects that you use as extensions of your body action, are they a part of the setting or do they carry any symbolic meaning? How do you choose your materials?
Most objects we use carry specific symbolic meaning and therefore are integral to the performance and the actions taking place. The symbolism explored can change from performance to performance as our understanding and relationship develops with each specific materials/objects. The more we embody certain actions the more the specific materials used become extensions of our bodies, yet the meaning might deepen, be imbued, traversing far beyond as merely an extension of the body, but rather become ‘spirited’ and ‘alive’, becoming its own entity.
We carefully select these materials as aesthetically they act to bracket, hold and hone a tone of the work and construction of a reality, it is the first layer often encountered. The aesthetics are the ‘face’, the surface of the work as such, behind which the meaning and the experience unfolds. It is therefore important that these materials in relation to each other emanate the right essence/tone.
We often use materials that are in some way poignant and related to the specific context and environment, though in instances where the context is less distinct, arguably the white walls of a exhibition space, we allow the concepts, thematic research and material explorations to take a lead, working more intuitively with metaphors, poetics and issues we hold close to our hearts, bringing together materials, surfaces and associations that would not normally be placed in relation to each other to allow new meanings to unfold.
Burnt toast for example is a material that is still quite new to us: Our relationship with burnt toast as a material was first initiated in Australia when we conducted interviews with a myriad of people around their personal definition of sense of belonging as well as what they perceived, if at all, to the opposite of belonging and the stories associated with them. Toast emerged out of these conversations with people both in relation to invoking a sense of belonging through its smell and taste, and the daily ritual of preparing it, and interestingly also in relation to an opposite sense of belonging. As when it is overdone and burnt it becomes abrasive, brittle and harsh to touch, and its smell for some becomes a reminder of burnt matter, specifically a reference to house fires and even more so the association to bush fires in Australia that causes repeatedly displacement of communities.
Q: To what extent are you aware of the audience when you are doing a performance?
The audience, whether there is direct contact or not, is always a large and unforgettable component in the overall performative experience. Even if we don’t exchange eye contact with anyone directly for example, just the audience’s presence, their willing giving of attention, consideration, energy and focus affects how we as performers experience the work and to a certain degree how and what actions will take place, they contribute energetically to the ‘fabric of the moment’ as described earlier. So our awareness always includes the audience as they are intrinsically woven into the fabric and potential materials of any performance.
Q: Do you experience each other differently when being in a performance?
During performances our awareness shifts and all senses are heightened, we slip back into our natural sense of being, even if the actions might be quite extreme. We give ourselves to the process and the task at hand. This act of surrendering and giving full attention to navigating live, the mental and conceptual framework that we have constructed out of research as much as from intuition, allows us to meet each other on a ‘deeper’ more profound level, in a stripped back, bare, and fragile yet present state. This is the process of coming into being that we mentioned earlier. The context and the filters have shifted, the projections of each other are softened, and though we are navigating this new scenario together for the first time, this present, ‘authentic’ moment allows us to see each other with new eyes. This act of getting lost within a scenario, an action or a process and finding each other through it is something we value beyond artistic measure, a space is opened that when we both give ourselves to it seems to pulse with energy and potential, recognising each other for who we are and not who we want the other to be for us.
<< Back